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Yet another browser war

Started by on Apr 19, 2004 – Contents updated: Apr 19, 2004

Apr 19, 2004 00:30    

heaven_72121 wrote:

Too bad about the opera broswer. I really like it a lot better than IE. Especially the continue from last session option when you first start it.

Mozilla Firefox does that, it also has tabbed browsing, and it supports web standards (unlike IE and Opera).

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

Apr 15, 2004 17:42

heaven_72121 wrote:

Thank you for the tip about the opera broswer. It worked this last time. Too bad about the opera broswer. I really like it a lot better than IE. Especially the continue from last session option when you first start it.

well, i just click a little bit left from "edit timestamp" and the checkbox will be checked. i won't give up opera just because of this.

Apr 15, 2004 18:40

Opera doesn't support web standards. You should really check out firefox.

Anything it doesn't do already there are extensions to do. It's smaller and quicker then Opera.

The only version of Opera that is worth it's weight is the one for embedded systems.

Apr 17, 2004 02:12

I don't want to start a browser war, but I'm curious where you get your facts.

As far as I know Opera has always been great at supporting standards. What standards would Opera not support?

Size.. By just comparing the size of the installation packages for Firefox and Opera, Firefox is twice the size of Opera. (7.4 MB VS 3.6 MB for the Linux versions)

I haven't used Firefox so I can't comment on the speed, but I find Opera extremely speedy (except when browsing RFCs or other extremely large text documents). Opera 7 is a bit slower than Opera 6 though. Overall I don't think browser speed is that much of an issue these days.

I use Opera mainly for the mouse gestures. They're probably available for Firefox as well, but I don't feel like learning a new set of gestures. I also appreciate all the keyboard shortcuts available.

Apr 17, 2004 08:14

This is a good page to test your browser's support of random CSS trickiness:
http://www.info.com.ph/~etan/w3pantheon/style/cssbugstest.html

Actually, the guy's whole CSS site is very useful:
http://www.info.com.ph/~etan/w3pantheon/style/csshub.html

Basstech, Opera actually supports the W3C's CSS standards remarkably well, and has for at least 2 versions now. As far as I can tell, the only major web standards bug that it suffers from is the escaped-character hack. IE 5.5 and below, and Opera 6.0 and below (not sure about opera 7+) treat any \ as an escape for the next character. So,

Code

w\idth=500px;
wont' be read by Opera 6- or MSIE 5.5-, but it WILL be read by IE6+ and Gecko (including Mozilla, Phoenix, and Firebird/fox.) The rule is supposed to only affect characters A-G, which are then treated as a Hexadecimal character, so \a=10. Any other backslashes should be ignored by the useragent. (This hack causes big problems in Netscape. But no one really uses Netscape these days, do they? If they do, I say that we punish them with a crappy looking internet.)

Conveniently, the same versions of IE have a bug where they incorrectly interpret the CSS box-model. (Google for "box model hack" to learn all about this.) However, Opera 6- also has the backslash bug, but it interprets the box-model correctly, and therefor, using this hack is mean to opera. The way around this is that NO version of IE supports the child selector ">". So, you can use this to send a rule that IE won't see, and thus, the aptly-named "be nice to opera" rule.

I chose Mozilla Firefox because it was highly recommended, and I saw a huge (and growing) amount of extensions and development going on for it. I've heard a lot about various annoying bugs in Opera (just in the use of the program, not in its conformity to web standards) and didn't feel like dealing with it. So I tried Firebird first, and I fell in love with it right away, and felt no need to change. (If there's no web developer toolbar for Opera, forget it.) Also, with very rare exception, I've found that Firefox is as standards-compliant as can be. It surprises me sometimes just how good it is. (I still use IE for some sites that cling to stupid Javascripts that fail in other browsers, esp hotmail, gotomypc, and godaddy. Hooray for the "View in IE" extension!)

Firefox has a few different extensions for mouse gestures, and I'm sure that you'd be able to get the same sort of use out of it. But if the backslash thing has been fixed in version 7, then there's really no strong argument to switch if you're comfortable with it. Nevertheless, I strongly suggest installing Firefox, and a few extensions, and playing around with it a bit. It's extremely customizable, and that can be intimidating at first, but it really is a wonderful browser, and I can't say enough good things about it.

Apr 17, 2004 12:07

The Adblock extension is probably one of the best reasons to switch to Firefox. Click, and no more ads! :) It can even remove Flash ads, nasty Javascripts, <object>s, iframes and so on, and so on.

-Vegar

Apr 17, 2004 17:50

I have opera 8. I downloaded firefox yesterday. I reallydidn't care for it at all. But made things really interesting for viewing sites in the different browsers to see the effects it has. So it looks like I am yet again bcak to the drawying board on the my css file for my website, because it wierded out on Mozilla. Anybody have any good suggestions on the learning css. For some reason I can't quite grasp it. I can hand code html and XHTL from memory, but the CSS is really getting on my nerves. My library is ancient on the only computer books they had were Windows 3.1 for dummers and Windows 95 for dummy, sitting right next to Robin Hood. Yeah so much Dewy Decimal, lol.

But this is what it looked like check it in mozilla and I would be happy to share the css if someone could give me some help on fixing it to look right in all 3 major broswers. bBTW the links are there yet. i was redesigning So I haven't got all my pages up and going.

htt://beyondthejourney.com

Jun 28, 2004 21:03

Here are some links for css and style guides, and of course, you can google something like "css browser differences"

http://realworldstyle.com/

http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CssLayouts

http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/

Also see [url=http://www.corecss.com/properties/full-chart.php]Full CSS Property Compatibility Chart[/url]

And O'Reilly has a good series of books bundled as [u]The Web Programming CD Bookshelf[/u], which includes many great CSS1 & CSS2 references, as well as some help on handling browser differences (mostly by detecting object implementation through JavaScript).

If your library doesn't have it, maybe interlibrary loan can help. ;)

And, unfortunately, all browsers implement CSS1 and especially CSS2, differently - so validation doesn't mean your site will look the same. in all browsers under all operating systems at all resolutions Even some of the designerss web sites look odd in my 1600x1200 laptop screen. /sigh

Hope this helps.

Jun 30, 2004 23:43

Graham wrote:

If you get your css so it [url=http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/]validates[/url], your site should look the same in all browsers.

appart from ie of course, where that depends on if it validates, if the moon is in its 3rd phase, if your head is at EXACTLY 35.1234124234 degree angle and if your wearing shoes :p

Aug 26, 2006 02:08

basstech wrote:

Opera doesn't support web standards. You should really check out firefox.

Anything it doesn't do already there are extensions to do. It's smaller and quicker then Opera.

The only version of Opera that is worth it's weight is the one for embedded systems.

Take a look at this [url=http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html]test[/url] and these [url=http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html]charts[/url] to compare browser speeds.

As for standards compliance, take a look at the [url=http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html]acid 2[/url] test. Try it out on multiple browsers, or just skip to the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid2]Wikipedia[/url] article.

Granted, these are only single tests, but they are pretty well respected.

I've been using Firefox myself since old habits die hard, but this is all just some food for thought. ;)


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