Recent Topics

A little constructive criticism

Started by on Jan 03, 2008 – Contents updated: Jan 03, 2008

Jan 03, 2008 11:28    

Hi friends,

Hopefully you won't get angry with me but I wanted to comment this. Firstly, no doubt the work of the b2evolution team is superb and on top of that "for free". I have nothing to say about that.

Anyway, if you want to turn your software into the "absolute" leader in weblogs software I suggest the following (you may hear or not, it is your option):

1) Didactics is crucial. I got used to explain difficult topics (e.g. Sanskrit language) to people for years in a didactic way. I mean, possibly you don't understand how scary some things may be for an "average" webmaster like me. For example: Widgets. I was a long while till I got the idea!!! The main factor for the delay was my not fast intellect and the fact that the explanations are good... but for other devs or advanced webmaster :)

2) If you need help about didactics, please contact me. I know, it is extremely difficult to explain complicated subject-matters to the masses, but if you fail to do so, your expansion will be restrained. OK, mi intellect may be slow but my patience and perseverance is strong enough as if to spend several hours "trying to figure out" what the guy explaining features in v2.3.0 meant to say!!! And this is no joke.

3) Perhaps this is happening to other webmasters... I dunno... but I am experiencing this kind of things from the very scratch some months ago (October 2007), i.e. I have to fight against docs and then make/upgrade the blog version.

4) Be sure that to explain all in detail is extremely time-consuming, viz. you will have to write twice or thrice what you are writing right now, but it'll pay off in the long run!!! It is not only about the language barrier, but many things are so terribly complex for average webmaster like myself that I can't believe how my blog is ON right now, hehe.

5) Yes, many things (e.g. when someone helped me recently to move my database to utf-8... God bless him!!!) are "you order and I obey" because if you try to explain all that.... OMG!!! But some other aspects might be done much more didactic. For example: what the heck are stubs, widgets, etc.? (yes, I think I know it now but I had to study and ponder over all that for a long time).

Well, all in all, your software is superb but you MUST improve the docs regarding didactics where necessary if you want to get/keep the lead in blog software. If you need my help, I'll be glad to give you a hand with didactics so much as possible. Of course, if you are building docs for expert webmasters and devs, so forget about my suggestions... I said nothing then, hehe. But please, in either cases, don't take offence at my words. I am attempting to help you all in the way I can.

Jan 03, 2008 19:32

I'm pretty sure you can register with the manual and contribute.

Jan 03, 2008 21:58

I was finding out in manual and contribute and, while I can translate into Spanish easily, as I AM NOT a dev like you, I might make some mistakes, you know.

My main contribution are tips to "enhance" your "already written" docs. For example:

1) Use graphics to show what you mean.
2) When you write a doc about, say, stub files, put this on top of the page:

"Who needs this?"

Thus, people who DO NOT need them will save much time in reading something they don't need for the moment.

3) If there is a drawback in some feature, place a link to the related doc. For instance, in stub files (if I understood properly, of course) someone may feel enthusiastic till he/she read about that "thing" with permalinks if he/she use more than one stub file... this stops his/her enthusiasm and makes him/her confused.

etc. etc.

The human being is a "creature" who understands better if he can "see" what he should do. So, include more graphics (I mean, print the screen while explaining backoffice, for example) and WHY NOT, a video in Flash of an installation/upgrade (nothing too complicated but the basic movements a guy has to make in order to have his blog up and running).

And so on and on.

Jan 03, 2008 22:19

My friend I am NOT a developer! I found this software way back when 0.8.6.2 was new and have contributed as I could since then. So I'm a bit of an insider now, but certainly not a developer.

"Who needs this" seems like a good idea.

For a while we considered flash video manuals for stuff. Perhaps that idea needs to be revisited?

And hey if no one has said it, welcome to the forums!

Jan 03, 2008 22:26

EdB wrote:

For a while we considered flash video manuals for stuff. Perhaps that idea needs to be revisited?

Did any one apart from me ever mention it?
EdB wrote:

And hey if no one has said it, welcome to the forums!

We forgot? How cruel. GabrielP welcome to the forum.

@GabrielP I will answer your topic with some more indept thoughts later on. I made sure some people behind the screens heard your voice.

Happy blogging

Jan 03, 2008 22:55

Afwas wrote:

Did any one apart from me ever mention it?

I'm pretty sure it came up before your time. Right around the time we went from a "blog as manual" to a wiki format.

Jan 03, 2008 23:08

Camtasia Studio 3 is more or less free nowadays.

EdB wrote:

the time we went from a "blog as manual" to a wiki format.

May I live the day

Jan 03, 2008 23:28

EdB wrote:

My friend I am NOT a developer! I found this software way back when 0.8.6.2 was new and have contributed as I could since then. So I'm a bit of an insider now, but certainly not a developer.

"Who needs this" seems like a good idea.

For a while we considered flash video manuals for stuff. Perhaps that idea needs to be revisited?

And hey if no one has said it, welcome to the forums!

Oh, sorry... but that "Super Guru" status gave me the creeps :)!!!

Yes, "Who needs this?" is a good idea because it saves much time in reading something that one does not need to read at the moment. For example (if I understood the docs rightly), in my own case, despite the fact I have two blogs in two languages, as the two use the same skin, I really don't need the stub files. Yeah, I can use them anyway, but I think to myself:

"That permalink thing I didn't understand at all... oh, I won't take any chances! I won't use stub files JUST IN CASE".

Now, do you understand how a guy like me (an average webmaster who is not a dev) thinks when reading the docs?

Jan 03, 2008 23:36

Afwas wrote:

EdB wrote:

For a while we considered flash video manuals for stuff. Perhaps that idea needs to be revisited?

Did any one apart from me ever mention it?
EdB wrote:

And hey if no one has said it, welcome to the forums!

We forgot? How cruel. GabrielP welcome to the forum.

@GabrielP I will answer your topic with some more indept thoughts later on. I made sure some people behind the screens heard your voice.

Happy blogging

I have no doubt that you are a "dev", hehe. After seeing that script in action (the one generating the things to alter in mySQL in order to move it to utf-8), I said: OMG!!!

Then, I simply copy/paste in SQL of phpMyAdmin and it said: "OK". I just couldn't believe my eyes when I saw everything fixed in the collation and afterwards the entire blog with all written accents and Sanskrit transliteration in such a good shape.

That HOW TO is a masterpiece extremely helpful for people using non-English languages. Thanks a lot, friend.

Yeah, I am not a dev, but if you need translations into Spanish, just tell me and let's see what I can do. I am always buried in work with my site and community but I'll strive to find free time to help you all. At least, I can translate that HOW TO into Spanish... a piece of cake. Apart from Sanskrit grammarian, I am Spanish and English grammarian (I was studying English for 31 years and still keep learning it). Of course, any English-speaking native can crush me in a twinkling of an eye, because to know the grammar of a language does not guarantee that you "understood" the language. It is just 50% of the learning... the rest is practice and practice.

Well, nothing else friends. Happy to be here with you all.

Jan 03, 2008 23:41

GabrielP wrote:

I have no doubt that you are a "dev", hehe. After seeing that script in action (the one generating the things to alter in mySQL in order to move it to utf-8), I said: OMG!!!.

I am not a dev either. I am junior assistant to Mr. Ed.

Jan 04, 2008 00:39

I'm a Dev, I'm a Dev .... ohh no, wait .... nope ..... sorry, I'm just blonde ;)

ohhh, should include a picture as it makes for a better explanation ..... urm .... bugger ..... runs off to find a picture ......

http://innervisions.org.uk/foo.bar.jpg

:|

¥

Jan 04, 2008 05:14

Afwas wrote:

GabrielP wrote:

I have no doubt that you are a "dev", hehe. After seeing that script in action (the one generating the things to alter in mySQL in order to move it to utf-8), I said: OMG!!!.

I am not a dev either. I am junior assistant to Mr. Ed.

This must be a joke. If true, I can't imagine how "terrifying" personage a dev is 8| That guy... eeer... Planque... OMG, he must be fearful when speaking if a junior assistant can do what you did in that HOW TO. I imagine a dev like a guy all the time speaking un-understandable codes. The most understandable phrase coming from his mouth if someone asks him about the exit of a certain shop would be:

"Alt + F4"

I know a Brazilian php dev, who is my friend. Sometimes I have to say that I CAN'T understand what the heck the guy is talking about. Of course, I pretend to understand everything :lol:

Jan 04, 2008 05:17

¥åßßå wrote:

I'm a Dev, I'm a Dev .... ohh no, wait .... nope ..... sorry, I'm just blonde ;)

ohhh, should include a picture as it makes for a better explanation ..... urm .... bugger ..... runs off to find a picture ......

http://innervisions.org.uk/foo.bar.jpg

:|

¥

A dev should look intellectual IMHO, you know, and you look like this... engrossed in your own thoughts full of strange scripts!

Jan 04, 2008 06:25

"Planque" is one of the most intimidating persons you could ever hope to meet, and I did.

EVERY move I made was questioned from a deeply analytical perspective. We ate a meal together. I ordered my meal. He questioned me as to why I would query the menu several times before ordering an item I had access to on the second query. I opted for an alcoholic beverage. He pointed out that alcohol will reduce my response time and potentially invalidate the reliability of the response. I wanted to order a slice of pie for dessert but ... I was actually afraid to so I didn't. Instead I offered him a pleasure cruise in my little sports car. *That* experience finally got "the Mighty Planque" to stop analyzing every detail of everything. The thing is: the way I drive you just have to hang on and PRAY you live through it. After observing that he was quite uncomfortable I decided to not pull my hand guns out of all their hiding places ;)

Seriously: we're all just people. I've only met two of the "insiders" with b2evolution and both are real normal down to earth people. I see now my first picture of Yabba-The-Unspellable, or at least what I believe to be a picture of him. He's a hippie! Hooray for hippies!!!

We're all just people. Regular everyday average people, who happen to have this special thing for b2evolution. GabrielP will you join us? Will you actually contribute to the forums and the manual, or will you just tell us what we should do?

PS: ¥åßßå though I've dropped drinking and smoking from my list of recreational activities I can and will drink you under any table in any country on any day of the week. Look FORWARD to it yah? Perhaps we'll get the FG to drive us away from the bar we close?

Jan 04, 2008 06:51

Ed - you guys are nuts. You know that, right?

Jan 04, 2008 06:57

texasag90 wrote:

Ed - you guys are nuts. You know that, right?

Kind sir, I beg to differ with you.

We. Are. Core. :>

Jan 04, 2008 07:06

Core?

Crazy
Old
Roudy
Eclectics?

Jan 04, 2008 07:27

Caring
Outgoing
Respectful
Enablers

That's what you meant right? If need be I can edit your post for you ;)

Wow this thread has gone way off track. It is almost a "chat" issue, but the truth is GabrielP has offered constructive feedback designed to improve b2evolution.

Jan 04, 2008 11:08

EdB wrote:

"Planque" is one of the most intimidating persons you could ever hope to meet, and I did.

EVERY move I made was questioned from a deeply analytical perspective. We ate a meal together. I ordered my meal. He questioned me as to why I would query the menu several times before ordering an item I had access to on the second query. I opted for an alcoholic beverage. He pointed out that alcohol will reduce my response time and potentially invalidate the reliability of the response. I wanted to order a slice of pie for dessert but ... I was actually afraid to so I didn't. Instead I offered him a pleasure cruise in my little sports car. *That* experience finally got "the Mighty Planque" to stop analyzing every detail of everything. The thing is: the way I drive you just have to hang on and PRAY you live through it. After observing that he was quite uncomfortable I decided to not pull my hand guns out of all their hiding places ;)

Seriously: we're all just people. I've only met two of the "insiders" with b2evolution and both are real normal down to earth people. I see now my first picture of Yabba-The-Unspellable, or at least what I believe to be a picture of him. He's a hippie! Hooray for hippies!!!

We're all just people. Regular everyday average people, who happen to have this special thing for b2evolution. GabrielP will you join us? Will you actually contribute to the forums and the manual, or will you just tell us what we should do?

PS: ¥åßßå though I've dropped drinking and smoking from my list of recreational activities I can and will drink you under any table in any country on any day of the week. Look FORWARD to it yah? Perhaps we'll get the FG to drive us away from the bar we close?

That's my idea of a dev!!!! So intimidating!!! Listen to me: When I met my Sanskrit teacher (in 1989), I saw a little old man clad in something that was ever a suit. You know, he was very poor. You didn't give two cents for that guy! Anyway, when he started to teach me, something happened:

He literally demolished me!! Simply put, his intellect was so powerful and his memory so devastating that I couldn't follow his pace while teaching me Sanskrit grammar. In fact, there are to kinds of Sanskrit: Vedic -extremely difficult... it has 30+ written accents, for you to have an idea; and Classic or Modern. By Modern I mean 500 BC to date, you know. And Vedic is before 500BC. Well, that old man spoke in Vedic Sanskrit and teach me Vedic grammar at light-speed. I was going for Classic Sanskrit but ended up learning the most difficult type of Sanskrit from the scratch, good joke! I have a strong and stubborn intellect but I felt exhausted after every class with him. To describe my past condition is a difficult mission, really. Completely exhausted, tired, demolished, destructed, haha.

Besides, the guy spoke in English, French, German, Lithuanian (no joke, he even read the Bible in Lithuanian for us, his pupils... of course, we listened to him "in awe"), Russian (a piece of cake for him), Hebrew, Greek (Modern and Ancient), Latin, etc. etc. Once upon a time, I dared ask him about the exact amount of languages he knew... I said "1,000?", and he replied, after a little while, "Yes, more or less". And I believed him, no doubt about it.

On top of that, the guy knew plenty of geography (e.g. he passed a map of Europe onto us and described all that was there without looking at it... even rivers and mountain ranges in extreme detail). He did so because he was "also" a superb linguist (he had been a renowned professor in a university here). His knowledge about science was immense too. Hey, he described the entire Lunik mission (you know, the one of the Russians) in Russian language reading directly from a book of the 1950's. Of course, he translated at the same time. I couldn't believe it. I remember he said "Lunik" means "little moon" in Russian, haha.

Well, all in all, yes everybody is normal people but some guys are "too much", haha, you know.

And you are "too much", because if you didn't realize yet, I have no idea of what you mean to say by "contribute and manual". I pretended to understand :lol: . Yeah, I was looking for contribute and manual, but I couldn't find any way to help there. In other words, there were several Spanish-speaking guys there. For example, the Spanish localizations are superbly made by Prinz... I don't remember his name... yes, something like that. Thus, firstly explain me in detail what you mean by contribute and manual (where is the manual?... I was checking the docs but they are all in English and that's it).

Please, don't pull out your hand guns, hehe.

Jan 04, 2008 11:20

texasag90 wrote:

Ed - you guys are nuts. You know that, right?

Maybe, maybe, let me say to you the following:

This is the "first forum of the northern hemisphere" in the eight years I have been online, and I am not joking, in which my feedback received some credit. I feedbacked in many other forums of the north and the answers always were of the sort "You are not right and you'll never right". Of course, they didn't say that literally but nobody never recognized that something "might be improved", specially improved by someone living in the southern hemisphere, you know. Arrogance is all-pervading, in both hemispheres, obviously, but that was my experience anyway.

Thus, they might be nuts but they are very humble too... a rare virtue. No, I am not angry with you at all... I was just pondering over all this feedback and its consequences. Really, this is the "first time" I experience "real feedback" in a northern forum. Thanks nuts!

Jan 04, 2008 11:33

EdB wrote:

PS: ¥åßßå though I've dropped drinking and smoking from my list of recreational activities I can and will drink you under any table in any country on any day of the week. Look FORWARD to it yah? Perhaps we'll get the FG to drive us away from the bar we close?

I look forward to the day I prove yah wrong ;)

Completely
Offtopic
Rogue
Entry

;)

¥

Jan 24, 2008 17:10

I'm so glad to see GabrielP's challenge to improve the docs, and his willingness to help, I was going to post my own desire to see improved docs and to help out. (Note: I am not dissing the current wiki, I think it's a great start!!)

have much enjoyed reading this topic, but I'm gonna move over to the [url=http://forums.b2evolution.net/viewforum.php?f=26]Documentation effort[/url] forum now ... (sashaying over there in a minute) ...

Special thanks to EdB for "laugh of the day" (maybe the week), your "documentation" of your meeting with Planque is precious.

kazar

Feb 04, 2008 21:10

Take a bath, hippie! :lol:


Form is loading...

Content Mangement System – This forum is powered by b2evolution CMS, a complete engine for your website.