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Started by on Apr 16, 2009 – Contents updated: Apr 16, 2009

Apr 16, 2009 17:56    

I think I mentioned this in passing a long time ago, but I can't think of a likely phrase to search for it; I hope it hasn't been discussed extensively. If so, please be kind to me. ;)

The thing that is making me mad is this: I have three blogs and one "Blog all" which integrates them. Every one of these blogs has, obviously, its own categories and posts, but I have crossposting enabled, so a lot of posts (most of them, in fact) are present in more than one blog.

Now, let's have a little example. I have three blogs: let's name them L for literary things, J for journalism, and P for personal musings. Blog All integrates them.

Let's say I have four posts. The first one (or the last, thinking chronologically) is about a mention I won in a contest, so its main cat is in blog L, but it's also in P because it's an update about my life. The second post in Blog All is about an article someone else wrote, so it is only in blog J; the third one is about a book I read, so it is only in blog L. The fourth is about an article I wrote myself, so its main cat is in blog P, because it's about something I care about, and it is also in a cat in blog J.

If you read a post at a time and use "Prev" and "Next", Blog All is impossible to navigate completely. What's more: everytime you click on "Prev" or "Next" the skin may change, because you are switching blogs. In fact, it's not possible to navigate any individual blog at all, because the main cat can take you to another blog.

A reader entering the blog in post 1 will only see posts 1 and 3. A reader entering in post 2 will see posts 2 and 4. A reader entering in post 3 and going backwards (or forward in time) will only see posts 3 and 1. A reader entering in post 4 and going backwards will only see posts 4 and 1, BUT if s/he then goes forward, s/he will now see post 3!

"Navigation" arrows are now effectively a kind of confusing trap. What we need is a way to navigate one blog at a time, this is, "Prev" and "Next" links that take the reader to the next post in the blog s/he entered, whichever is the main cat of the current post. This should work in Blog All and in any other blog the reader happened to enter.

Apr 16, 2009 20:34

Let me get this straight, you care (p) about journalism (j) but you haven't personally (p) won a literary prize (l) for it?

Damn, if a blonde can make sense of it you'd like to think a core would have more than enough sense huh?

I *think* your problem is that the navigation follows your method of access to each page ( ie/ blog > cat > next page for blog that cat belongs to || blog > single post > next post for blog that post belongs to ) ... be a tad of a bitch to sort that one out ... but it should/could just be a matter of applying logical filters ( ie/ hit blog > add "filter by blog" > hit cat > add "now filter by cat" > hit post > "now filter by single post mode"

... bound to be someone that complains that expected behaviour has changed though :-S

Maybe it'd just be easier if you wrote an article (j) about the ways that b2evo fails to live up to your (p) expectations .... but write it in a poetic manner (l) ? :roll:

footer spam by EdB wrote:

If I had the wings of a sparrow,
And I had the arse of a crow,
I'd recode the core tomorrow,
And delete all the shit below

¥

Apr 16, 2009 20:48

Hahaha! Very creative. But I think what I'm asking is not that eccentrical. It's not *my* expectations, but *reader's* expectations which are betrayed with the default behaviour. I mean, once you allow crossposting (and b2evo does), you have this problem (and b2evo should try to solve it).

I can write poetry, but not code, so sorry, I can't do it myself, Yabba. :((( I see you can do both things beautifully!

Apr 16, 2009 21:02

I don't hardly ever use cross-posting across multiple blogs so I'm not hip to a key detail that perhaps you can explain: what exactly does prev/next follow when on a single post page using CPAMB? Meaning does it go to the prev/next in the blog that the current post's primary category is in, or the prev/next chronologically from ANY category that the current post contains?

More to the point: what do you think readers think it should be? (personally I think if readers have an opinion of what should be before and after the current post they're on then they're probably the writer, but that's just my mind failing to work properly ;) )

  • P1 has maincat from B2 and subcat from B4. prev/next does and should go where?
  • P2 has maincat from B4 and subcat from B2. prev/next does and should go where?
  • P3 has maincat from B3 and subcats from B2 B3. prev/next does and should go where?
  • P4 has maincat from B2 and subcat from B2. prev/next does and should go where?
  • P5 has maincat from B3 and no subcat. prev/next does and should go where?[/list:u]
  • Again I'm not hip to what it actually does because all my posts have cats/subcats from the blog you're in. So an understanding of how it works relative to blogs and cats and subcats from someone who uses CPAMB would help in attempting to create a customizing core file improvement.

Apr 16, 2009 21:21

EdB: I don't think it's risky to assume that any reader expects that clicking "Prev" or "Next" won't take him/her to another blog, with skin change and all, and certainly s/he doesn't expect that, when clicking the opposite link to go back in fear, they will see an entirely different post to the one s/he came from!

In all cases, the navigation should respect the blog which contains the main category of *the first post you saw when you entered the blog*, be it by standard navigation (fave, manual typing in the address bar) or via RSS feed.

If you try to navigate my real blog (www.lalaurette.com.ar/blog is the aggregator) you'll see the problem unfold in all its grace.

Apr 16, 2009 21:56

bit wrote:

In all cases, the navigation should respect the blog which contains the main category of *the first post you saw when you entered the blog*

/me hits aggregate blog "all" > follows post > panics over skin change > hits 'prev post' > panics when skin stays the same

... mind you, in my defence, it's easy to panic a blonde ..... damn sight harder to make them worry for longer than 20 seconds :D

a maze ... or is that amazed? wrote:

# P1 has maincat from B2 and subcat from B4. prev/next does and should go where?
# P2 has maincat from B4 and subcat from B2. prev/next does and should go where?
# P3 has maincat from B3 and subcats from B2 B3. prev/next does and should go where?
# P4 has maincat from B2 and subcat from B2. prev/next does and should go where?
# P5 has maincat from B3 and no subcat. prev/next does and should go where?

1) b2
2) b4
3) b3
4) b2
5) b3

Do I win a prize? :D

¥

Apr 16, 2009 22:10

I will repeat it just to be clear: Yabba's answers are right, but the question is incomplete. For example, if you enter the blog via P1, "Next" should take you to b2, and the other posts should ALSO take you to b2, regardless of the main cat to which they belong. Because, without this provision, EdB's question and Yabba's answer just duplicate current behaviour.

Apr 16, 2009 22:14

¥åßßå wrote:

/me hits aggregate blog "all" > follows post > panics over skin change > hits 'prev post' > panics when skin stays the same

Yeah, I understand. (It took me a while because I'm blonde too.) You're absolutely right. There should also be an "implicit" category for Blog All, so that when you enter the blog via "normal" means you can navigate ALL the posts in ALL blogs.

Apr 16, 2009 22:15

Um... look clicking a permalink from your main blog might take someone to a different blog right? So that would mean aggregation is the problem, but you asked it to aggregate posts.

It took 5 or 6 clicks to get off the first skin I saw when I hit the permalink for your current top post. I can't read any of what's there (English only eh?) but it was obvious to me that the link in the other direction wasn't the same title. And that I hadn't been there before due to how your style sheet is set up. The light blue for unvisited and black for visited bits.

It took about 8 more clicks to get off the next blog and into the photoblog.

Having poked around a bit, and without knowing your category IDs, it seems that prev/next is going to the prev/next post in the blog that the lowest category number is for the blog post you're on. What I mean is http://www.lalaurette.com.ar/blog/index.php/planeta/2009/03/16/ejercicios-de-taller-online seems to tell me your maincat is in italics, but that permalink doesn't ... er ... no that's not right because I can find posts without a category in italics.

The thing to know is that posts are not in blogs. They are in categories first and foremost. Categories happen to be in blogs. http://www.lalaurette.com.ar/blog/index.php/planeta/2009/03/05/fotolog-highlights is where I moved from the current blog to the photoblog, but I can't figure out quite why. That's why I'm guessing it seems to be going by the lowest category ID associated with the post you're on even though I can't guess the category ID or figure out which is the maincat for any given post.

Can you elaborate on the details of how your maincats versus subcats are styled? Perhaps, knowing your category IDs, can you verify or deny that the prev/next seems to be associated with lowest category ID?

IF this assumption is correct then what you want is for it to ignore the category ID and simply go by blog ID. That does seem almost intuitive, except for knowing that a post is not actually in a blog. b2evolution's association is Post -> Cat -> Blog.

Or perhaps it is going by literally chronological sequence given that you allow cross-posting across multiple blogs? Can you verify or deny that theory? Specifically, if it is literally stepping through the posts in the order you created them ... or something else.

***
Ah I see by previewing Yabba-the-Great is here. Yes: it does seem intuitive eh? So I'm thinking the cross-posting is saying, effectively, "heck all posts might be in all blogs so we'll just pull from the database the very next datemodified item".

Apr 16, 2009 22:25

Mmmh, no, these are two different things, just as I told Yabba a few moments ago, while you were writing your post.

It's got nothing to do with the lowest category number, but of the default category of the post. That's why you keep jumping from one blog to another. You ended up in the photoblog because some posts are linked to a category in the photoblog also (the photoblog itself is not aggregated, but that's an additional complication and doesn't have that much to do with the solution).

If we employed just a chronological sequence, regardless of the cats, you would end up visiting all posts even though you had entered one particular blog (let's say you're only interested in journalism). That's ungood. But not as much as the current situation, which is double plus ungood.

What we need, I think, is a variable which records the current blog upon entrance, and sticks to it during the whole navigation session. There would still be some things to consider, like, for example, to reset the variable if you click a link to the root of a particular blog (I have these links below the main title in Blog All, beside a link to b2evo itself).

Apr 16, 2009 22:28

"incomplete" is the operative word ;)
imagine you have blogs b1 -> 4, and post 1 that's in all blogs :

You hit b1 and click "next page" -> you expect b1's next page ( and skin )

You hit b2 -> click post (p1) -> click next page -> you expect b2's next page ( and skin )

Now you add b5, which aggregates b1 -> b4, you hit b5 -> click p1, you don't expect a change of skin > you hit "next page" > you get next post in b5

Then you hit cat 2 of p1 which you're currently viewing in b5 > hit next page > server tilts for a while -> server than gives up the ghost and shows next post in b5 in cat 2

/me removes rose tinted glasses ;)

¥

Apr 16, 2009 22:50

Yes, that would be it, in a nutshell.

Apr 16, 2009 22:55

You realise that you can get committed for agreeing with a blondes logic? :O

¥

Apr 16, 2009 22:58

Hahaha! Given that b5 is the aggregator, "next post in b5 in cat 2" really means "next post in cat 2", which is another special case: clicking a category name should enable navigation by cat, not by blog.

Confused? Not really. But I've already said I'm blonde too.

Apr 16, 2009 23:02

In other words what *exactly* is the current situation? How does that exact post lead to the photoblog?

Apr 16, 2009 23:06

Because the main cat is in the photoblog, and because the current navigation method is flawed.

Apr 16, 2009 23:11

This is: that post belongs to two cats, one of them (the main one) being in the photoblog, and the other in the Personal blog. You get to the post via the aggregator, but once you're there, the main cat makes you jump to the photoblog, which is wrong.

Apr 16, 2009 23:13

bit wrote:

Confused? Not really. But I've already said I'm blonde too.

I save confusion for brunettes ... mind you, they're almost as easily confused, so not really a challenge :p

¥

Jun 08, 2009 00:41

Is there any chance for this to get done? I see crossposting is still not even a backoffice setting. I think I will have to put "general" as the main category of ALL the posts of ALL my blogs to work around this problem. But... wait, there's no multiple selection of posts to change the cat! AAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!!!!eleven


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